Ep.8 vowl. | LevelsFM Music Production Podcast - YouTube
it's foots you might recognize me from such movies as uh the matrix and the shawshank redemption no big deal um uh or probably other episodes of this podcast so i've got a very special episode of levels fm for you today not only am i interviewing nic aka vowl. from sydney australia but it's also riddled with tactical difficulties no it's not riddled but um there's some bad like zoom connection especially at the beginning so if you can't handle a little bit of matrixy zoom shenanigans audio then you're gonna hate this episode um [Laughter] otherwise i think you're gonna love it all right enjoy [Music]
what is your name and or your alias is nic baron and the name is vowl. and i have a couple of other projects which i don't know if they're that relevant in this industry we'll stick with val okay it sounded uh we have a little bit of an internet connection thing going on because we're on opposite sides of the earth um so just tell us your your alias again in case because it sounded a little matrixy on my end but just say it again true okay
um my name is nic and my alias is vowl. where is that name from how did you get that name um about like five years ago i was literally i remember with my friend we were just like spitballing because he was getting basically just trying to make cool like random letter combinations and that was my one that i came up with it was just sort of looked cool and of course back then it was just like throwing the um full of everything just looked cool so i just did that and that was it there's no meaning behind it or anything it just is like a bit of an aesthetic choice i think that's awesome it's great that you were able to get it but maybe the full stop helps with that definitely right with getting your uh
soundcloud handle on um so where are you located on the other side of the planet i'm in sydney australia currently which is cool nic are you ready are you ready for the lightning round the lightning round let's do it what is the best song of all time it's the lightning round oh um everybody reacts this way just breathe um calm down i want to say we uh all we ever see of the stars are their old photographs by we are the emergency it's a super emo song i love the the length of that title that's great okay why did you choose that it's just like this it's like a two minute like emo ballad
and then out of nowhere it's just like the biggest drop you've ever heard like huge slam guitars just like screaming out of nowhere there's this huge like two minute kind of rise and then just hits that's so emotional like a like a rock drop not an electronic drop or something yeah so it's like it's like full post hardcore right right cool that's awesome that sounds great yeah that just popped up for some reason i don't know that's good that's what the lightning round's for who has the best voice of all time i want to say i can't think of his name um the lead singer of do you know him you cut out there so say it again of uh of the emo band i i know that you said of
mice and men but it cut out on my end so the lead singer of mice and men uh is that what you said yeah okay um no i don't know who that is but that's pretty good i don't know his name though okay yeah and you like and his voice is good because he's crazy what's crazy about it oh it's just like you know when like i i love like emo music um and he's just got one of those like classic kind of emo voices with just like the cleanest tone like he goes so hard but his tone is just like popping um interesting and it's just i don't know it's just like massages your ears [Laughter] i love it love him that's awesome uh who is your favorite musical group or band of all time
oh oh god that's hard um yes i want to say like a man of listening uh the amity affliction probably i've never heard of them that like an aussie post hardcore band you're really into post hardcore and email right yeah love it when did you make the switch to electronic uh it was pretty like in unison honestly like because during school like i was just always listening to um [Music] yeah like a lot of like red hot chili peppers and like kind of rock music um but then uh like a discovered soundcloud got really into kind of like cloud trap back in like 2014-15 and stuff and then at the same
time i just stumbled across like screamo music and i just thought it was so sick i loved it um and yeah so i was just really listening to basically what val became um and all my influences for val i was listening to at the same time as like um you know all the post-hardcore stuff that's great i'm sorry back to the lightning round so uh next question uh who is your dream collaboration uh anytime collab like a singer or somebody you can write a song with somebody yeah um ah it's the lightning i love yeah i wanna say uh i wanna say george daniel from the 1975. cool he's like the drama producer and i
just like think he's crazy awesome uh laptop or recording studio i want to say recording studio but i feel like whenever i am in like a awkward uh like space or scenario with a laptop better things are made true what about you my favorite answer was a couple days ago i i interviewed alex on weed and he said laptop in a recording studio i think that's that's the best answer that's good um but but i would say for me these days laptop it's cool but i learned in a recording studio so that's like that's that's how i think but yeah you know the laptop's just an emulation of the recording studio at the end of the day but i just i like lying back and you know just using a laptop uh what's your favorite uh quit switching the lightning
round on to me this is about you uh what's the what's your favorite audio effect uh reverb for sure any specific type of reverb uh i am definitely not like a a good like a gear head by any means and no or like a lot about much but i love like valhalla rooms i use that on like everything cool i i love that you're not a gear head that's great that's good i love it i want to be though like i'm kind of getting some stuff recently it's pretty fun to uh to be messing around when you don't know what you're doing though right like me with music theory right like i've always sort of pushed that away now i'm learning more about it but there's something fun about just sitting down at a piano and going i have no idea how you were constructed but i think i sort of understand how i'm gonna
approach it you know what i mean 100 there's something exciting about that it changes your approach and i don't think either way is good or bad i just think that knowing and not knowing are just two different ways of approaching things so i'm always really interested in people's approach to dependent on their knowledge of something i think it's great definitely i feel like you couldn't get like a like i feel like it's kind of obvious but like rawr connection to like creation than using an a real instrument like a piano or a guitar or something it's just like it it feels like you're right there with it versus there's like a buffer between you and you know like software or something right that's true because the vibrations are so important and if you can actually feel the physical vibration right on the instrument itself that's going to inspire you in some way although you can you can feel it through your headphones you can ultimately feel the vibration through your headphones
um so aside from that valhalla reverb what's your favorite plugin so that could be like vst vst instrument vst effect uh i love um my trusty silenced one um and sin plant or sign plan i don't know how to say it sign plants really like intuitive and just fun i feel like do you know what that is yeah brock was telling me about it in his interview and i think i've seen it before where it's like this plant that sort of grows and yeah it's super fun it's great yeah um you're into nature too right so maybe that's bringing together the synths definitely it just feels cool to like i love visuals as well so playing stick for that that's so cool i want to talk to you later about other things aside from music that you're that influence your
music and maybe visuals are one of those things um [Music] which song sounds great which songs sound great which song sounds great it's the last question in the lightning round uh i love i don't know why this is popping into my head but chocolate by the 1975. just to help sorry and kind of like right the guitars pop and stuff and i don't know cool is it eq or panning or compression yeah i don't know i think it's like a combination of just perfect yeah i would say eq'ing probably plays a huge part like i feel like the drums are bass they've all got it feels like
they've all got like room next to them or something like eq wise or something they've all got so much space to just pop through so like amazing i don't know that's great uh two shout outs for the 1975. yeah that's the end of the lightning round what did you think of lightning round that was high octane yeah that's what it's for right gets you all pumped up that like hurts my brain like i feel like i'm gonna watch this and just be like what are those answers that's what everybody thinks that's that's the beauty of the lightning round is we get to see how you act under the nobody has the answer to those questions what's the best song of all time who wrote these questions what kind of dumb question is that it's so you can't answer that question can you can you nick hey by the way uh everybody uh this is the first guest i've interviewed on levels fm shout out
levels fm uh that i've never met before in real life i just met nick and i just met today um we we met like what half an hour ago or something yeah and so far i i i don't mind i don't think nick minds me telling you we don't like each other very much there's already a little bit of a rivalry going on we're on different sides of the planet there's a lot of attention there was instant tension upon joining the call i felt extremely judged and just like this guy doesn't understand me i have that effect on people i i push people away right but yeah it's really cool brock wilson uh shout out brock wilson uh introduced us and uh suggested that nick might be a great guest and so far he has come as advertised and now we're through the lightning round so you can
relax see that's the best part about the lighting round is it comes early and then you get it out of the way now you've done the breathing exercise after this we could do another one [Laughter] okay so let's uh let's get serious here nick we have no time for comedy on levels fm just kidding um where were you born let's go way back in time here oh say it again you're you're lost in the matrix again what kind of dick about my birth uh just like yeah town town or city or whatever yeah um it was just like a small is near where i lived um before i moved to a small town called lean
say that again isn't it um just in the country we're really in the matrix we're really we're in the matrix yeah um i wonder what we can do yeah no i ca it sounds better now okay say it again yeah i think so um yeah it was just in a uh small town lingatha right near where i before i moved to sydney okay cool i thought i think i got that although i have no idea how to spell that but that's okay um and how many people live there small town yeah like probably 4k 5k something like that it's pretty small yeah pretty rural rural um can you tell us about an early childhood musical
memory like something that really sort of you know blew your mind about music or some type of music early musical memory i have a couple of like really vivid music memories like um driving to like the ski mountains and stuff with dad like listening to stadium arcadium like the cd like on just like repeat um then yeah californication and stuff and also randomly like my mum got me uh the like a daft punk cd when i was super young i was probably like eight or nine or something i remember just listening to around the world like over and over and she was just like just turn this up because that sounds so repetitive it's so great i loved it um but i was never like i never thought like i was a musical person ever
which was weird like i got into music when i was like like 16 17. um and yeah it was like super random kind of the way it all happened the story well all right it was pretty it came from a pretty nerdy beginning i used to play video games like all the time like cod and used to make like full-on cod montages and and that led me to trying to find cool music for them and i stumbled across soundcloud and yeah found like all these like weird trap producers and stuff just like very like grass roots um and just being like this is sick like the first time hearing an 808 i was like what the is this i thought it was so sick that's so cool and yeah then i'd
fl studio and like just started messing around for like for like an hour or two and then like get up for two months later try again and then like months later started to like these things get um spread out the way it all started and like i just started and pushed through and learned it was a super like sparse process is fl still your daw of choice what do you use yeah yeah i think it's just like i feel like unless you're like super smart and you're unable to nerd um you can kind of learn anything but i'm i don't know like i like i took i checked other like doors out and fl just always felt just so like easy and clear to me and i think at the end
of the day it's just like whatever you can utilize the best 100 i i always find that fl users are like apologists they're like oh all i really know is it's not though and it shouldn't be like it's a great daw and like i remember it from the beginning it used to be called fruity loops everybody laughed at it and it became like that kid that you laugh at and then goes home and like works out all summer and then comes back and it's like what's up now it's like oh look at fruity loops now it's like my name's fl studio now and i'm silver and gray and it's like okay fl studio came to party legit people love it people love it and it's just like you said if you can do if you could work on it and it's simple and easy that's good that's what a daw should be 100 right definitely whichever one captures your imagination makes it easy
for you your workflow that's the one you should use and i would also suggest that to everybody that once you learn how to use a daw digital audio workstation for those of you that don't know what that is um you should try to eventually learn another one even though your brain's gonna be like no i don't want to it's the same thing as learning a new language right because you'll be you'll be able to approach your music with so much more control if you understand it from those two points of view as opposed to just one you'll understand what designing a kick drum means if you can't just turn up the knob that says low that's an orange knob in whatever dawn because you'll have to rethink the whole thing and you'll have to think about it from a fundamental level right fully and like i feel like once you learn or once you can yeah navigate a door pretty easy like you'll surely see
similarities and quicker definitely i i would even say to that that once you understand how a daw works nick you start to understand how life works because the more and more i teach music production the more i realize i'm not teaching music production i'm not learning about music production i'm learning about life nick i'm learning about life this is all about life it's all connected we're going deep here on foot cast yeah um levels fm um that's awesome um now another thing that we we have in common aside from being music producers is i had a problem with call of duty like 15 years ago too i wonder if we were playing together i wonder if we were in the same clan back in those days right i literally i had to give the disc to my friend and
say give this to somebody take this out of my life because it's i was waking up like dreaming about throwing grenades everywhere and stuff like i don't even like war i'm anti-war and that's what i was thinking first thing in the morning when i woke up i feel like it's a funny one like i feel like like it like came from the exhibit oh you went to the matrix again sorry i feel like producers say that part again for sure can you hear me no uh it cut out again say it again from it feels like produce i feel like producers it's like we're doing takes here oh yeah there's nothing buddy
um let's just give it a second we'll give it a second i can i can either edit this stuff out or leave it in i think i might leave it in but i think i got you back okay so say it again from the i feel like producers yeah you were all hardcore gamers at some point i feel like it's kind of like you get your dexterity on the computer from it you know or like with technology and uh tails was saying that a lot of times producers play video games and then they meet in you know like on discord and stuff like that a lot of a lot of collabor collaborations go down between producers on discords yeah on discord while they're gaming while they're gaming yeah same thing okay so let's go to uh i like this question see see if it it resonates with
you do you remember the first time you heard your voice recorded and then played back to you yeah it was really like um uh yeah it was really bad i had it like sm57 which is like a shitty pop filter in my bedroom back home this is when i like this is one of my other projects i started as like kind of an indie pop type project and yeah it was just like really bad it's just like i i the worst part is that when you just don't know how to mix your voice because like you can be a pretty bad singer and if you can mix your voice well it makes all the difference um so yeah i just didn't know how to mix and i was like it sounds so bad took a little bit tell us about that keep going with that thought and tell us what it is that the difference between somebody that doesn't know how to mix their own voice and
somebody who does what would somebody who does do to their voice to make it sound good well i feel like it's just like um it's just like how you'd learn to add like effects to a kick or an 808 or something you know it's just like it becomes super like methodical and you just tweak it according to like the nuance of the sound and like with vocals yes i feel like it's if anything it's more kind of consistent with the effects that you use and stuff but do you want me to like talk through like a basic chain or something yeah i think while we're here let's do it well i usually start with just like a gentle like saturation like a little bit just to bring out some more vibes and um straight into like it my order's a little i think my order's a little bit wrong but it works um i'd usually go into an eq or a
compressor um and just take away like i usually do like a high pass or like a pretty gentle slope um and just take out to about like two to four or something and then just give like a nice little like helped my voice pop a lot was just like yeah gentle kind of high shelf just making it buzz a bit and then a little bit of reverb little bit of delay and then another eq at the end and that's just it like i mean that's like a rough skeletal little chain because like the order of things is obviously really helpful which i didn't know about for a long time like i didn't even know for so long that yeah you it was a good idea to put an eq after a reverb like it's funny how like order of things is actually really important
yeah it is it is but not as important i think as the components themselves i think you've got to get the full components first and then then the order can really change things up for sure um so my my magic vocal chain is almost the same as yours and i call the eq you just you described i call that the nike swoosh right the little dip in the three to four hundred zone and then the shell i think everybody does that i think that's that's the move you eventually i think everything you said is what people naturally progress towards even with the doctor because it's so good like if you just just throw it on anything and then you kind of just it's great to have just that preset chain or whatever you throw it on and then just tweak it and you can basically make anything work or i love like having that ready for like effect vocals or something and just you know like a couple of reverbs or like some weird like just to
affect vocal or something do you do all do you do all of your processing during the mix or do you track any of this stuff like through plugins yeah so i just do it in the mix mainly um yeah yeah i've never i've never yeah experimented with that really i know that's how they do it in the studios and stuff through like the hardware and everything and it sounds incredible you can even you can even do it through the software you can just route things you can have two things separate input channel and then the record track right um but then you you know it there's there's pros and cons to doing it either way if you if you're tracking through plug-ins a there's going to be potentially latency problems but b you have to really commit to those moves you know because you know you're not going to be able to uh to change much of it later so
i think that's probably the main thing yeah it's just like having the freedom to turn the vocal into anything once it's recorded yeah that's definitely a great approach too um [Music] do you remember the first album that you heard that changed your life um what's funny like i would say yeah just like it like albums that really initiated my like emotional radar for music or like my um taste i would say would be definitely like emo type albums like um let the ocean take me by the amity affliction that album like definitely changed my life i would say like 100 because yeah like drew isn't like getting into vow like no one was putting out albums
and stuff it was all like singles and like random remixes and stuff um so yeah albums yeah that i loved uh punisher by phoebe bridges i thought that was like a 10 out of 10. for sure why that was like when i started like really focusing on like a lot of vocal production and like more like me uh we're in the matrix again oh okay it seems to be like consistent in its how like in between matrixes and then how long it takes it takes probably about 30 seconds for you to get out of it so we'll just uh we'll talk or talk our way through you seem to be back now um okay keep
going i i think it cut off the name of the producer so you talk about that album and then you cut off on the name of the producer okay uh yeah it's just like tony berg um he's like this older guy from yeah just in l.a i think and he's he's just i i thought his work on that was just stunning like the instrumentation and just like the attention to detail was just like not heard um and just the emotion and like just holly would be the word that i that album have you heard that no um just for a production stand especially it's just like insane that's so cool yeah how um how do you approach the vocal samples that are in your songs
um sort of a method i mean early on it was definitely like very super primitive it's just like pretty like naughty in a lot of ways just like cutting it out like making it fit into and like into your basically into like a time like a bpm and then just um like using my ears and just like creating around it basically and then it up with just random effects that i can't even remember but um the fast track assignment that i'm going to do today is going to like kind of turn vocal samples into really cool synths cool sounding things so a little a little preview for the listeners there um that's awesome
um uh okay i was gonna say what was the other thing um [Music] oh i know what i was gonna call back to was um around the world by uh daft punk i just wanna say that was that's my favorite daft punk song too by the way yes um a little bit repetitive um but great so do you remember the moment that you sort of decided you were gonna do this and go from being a music fan to a music producer and actually like make a try to make a living out of it and even though probably people were trying to talk you out of it maybe not no uh well it was never like really a like it was just like a as much as it was just a compulsion like my whole life it's been kind of like a
i've been a very like obsessive person with whatever it is i'm doing like um like i was really into filmmaking for like four years and it was just all i did like i wanted to be the next tarantino and then like drop that got into like skiing fully was like trying like competing going super hard and then got sick of that dropped that and then music in my last couple years of high school and yeah i blew off high school basically i was making music in my classes uh in the library and yeah that actually stuck so it's cool it's just kind of do you still utilize that film tarantino obsession in your music at all does that does that manifest in your music anywhere well yeah i was like obsessed like in a i would say a universal way or like an
energy way like i was always i remember for about two years i didn't leave my room my hometown and just every single night like i'd be trying to find cool cool like indie movies creative like movies and stuff and then just make music all day that would be my kind of routine so it was just like surrounded by ah like that in a sense um and so yeah like and i love to make little uh like little like vhs uh clips for certain songs and stuff and um yeah like it's definitely like film has always really inspired me just because of like evokes feeling and then i try and like cap like recreate that feeling um that's how i'd say yeah like film influences me for sure
you're big on feeling aren't you so am i like uh feeling an emotion in songs in vocals in the art it's really important right we're trying that's all that's all that really is like unless it's an energy thing and you're like creating hype or something which is a feeling as well so i guess it's like yeah it's all all about feeling 100 that's so cool um what's your favorite tarantino movie do you have a favorite one rate all the tarantino movies from nine to one [Laughter] what's the best one i i think it's in glorious bastards uh or pulp fiction yeah i was gonna say pulp fiction i used to say reservoir dogs though that's that was i mean that was my first introduction to him
i just love like again it's just like you feel his energy like in the films and it's just like it's just got like an edge i guess um i i love the incorporation of music too i love how the music just fits yeah and the pacing of his movies is great i feel like so he's just like captivating i think pulp fiction was the first movie i saw that was out of sequence too he was the first guy that i saw do that where it's like this guy's dead already i love that stuff um [Music] how has your musical taste changed and stayed the same over the years what stayed the same and what's changed uh i would definitely say i um always like i still love emo music and just like because i feel like it's pretty timeless like when like i feel
like bands and live music is kind of timeless um for the most part whereas i would say trap definitely i don't listen to trap anymore or like a lot of electronic music i don't really listen to anymore even though it's like kind of what i make on val i don't like i definitely don't listen to it i listen to just like bands um yeah that's basically it actually yeah sometimes it's kind of weird to listen to music that's similar to the music that you make right because it just yeah it just feels like i don't want to hear this fully you get over it you're just like i spend all my time doing this anyway i want to listen to something else something totally different exactly um [Music] how how big you were you were mentioning before we started recording that you're not really you don't do you play live much you don't really play live much
right you're more of a studio gangster yeah but that's not to say that i like don't want to i think my i've obviously like uh with val and stuff like i've never had management or anything of the sort and being in rural australia my opportunities were kind of slim i feel like and like that but that's like that's completely in my hands you know like um i played a couple of shows like i played one in melbourne a couple in america but like super low-key kind of just like set up with friends type thing and um yeah one of them was like one of them felt cool that was like opening for mr carmack um in melbourne oh cool but um that's like it really like i've never it's something i haven't like delved into it all like as far as like booking agents and figuring out how to go about
all that stuff it's just like not where my energy really lies i think i'm much more like reclusive prefer just create and like do do stuff that way but i would love to get into more live stuff like with these other projects particularly where i'm like doing vocals and stuff do you ever do you ever think of your song structure like as in what would this sound like live how would this go over live or does that ever come into play with this with when you're writing a song never um yeah i would say i never uh like consciously think about music that i'm creating in a live setting um yeah mainly yeah it's mainly just like what i like like to hear in the moment um i would say that would just be it so you you're just building as the inspiration hits you as opposed to you you don't have like a vision in mind
that you're trying to accomplish you're just reacting to the universe yeah like with my other projects much more so i'm like i would say planning and like it sounds bad but almost trying to control a lot more of like everything um whereas val definitely is just like anything goes very like universal it's just whatever's happening at the time and just like whatever feels right like i've been putting out music that's like two years old for the past like year and it's just like feels good um so yeah it's really just like fun now i would say let's try to keep it that way that's a good approach it's good for you it's good for your brain to laugh and have fun um okay can you uh
answer this question what is music production um like i've got no funny i want to say like a funny word of some sort but i can't think of one i just want to say it's just like an experiment and it's like you're shooting in the dark like it doesn't matter how good you are i feel like it's just completely random and it's like you're um it's like as each thing uh creates you're basically just freestyling it and that's just it i think people would definitely think you're like music is just like he's so good he would just know what to do uh like step after step bang bang bang but i feel like it's just all about dropping into the flow state like basically um just letting god the universe whatever just like come through you when you're just like
lucidly creating great answer i like it i think that's so cool that i'm going to answer that when next time somebody asks me what music production is i'm going to answer exactly what you just said word for word um that's great i love that answer um [Music] and i agree uh tell us about the first time you walked into a recording studio like somebody else's music making environment like what's the coolest music making environment you've ever walked into that wasn't yours oh i reckon uh in new orleans uh loyola university i went there with some of my yeah like producer friends there and it was just decked out like huge board like
genelecs just like super crazy like sound quality that i'd never heard and i was just playing my on there i'm just like like it sounded so bad but so good because like obviously my mixing was shy too and then it was just so thick i was just like how do people tame those like bass frequency that i think it's remarkable yeah um but i'm just gonna quickly grab my charger because my phone is just like dying super quick on this no problem maybe that maybe that's what the uh the dropout issue is maybe not yeah um [Music] okay quickly just plug this in no worries oh by the way uh everybody the drinking game today is you have to drink every time nick says reckon so we're at one so far so every time every time he says reckon
everybody take take a drink you might want to line up a couple of drinks everybody because nick is from uh from australia so the wrecking count i reckon might uh might get out of hand pretty quick about three times before the call started as well i love it what's the canadian version of reckon dude maybe i don't know hey um so i have one more question from this side of the page and then we're moving to the second side of the page um tell us about your first demo the first demo you recorded what was that like like for like vocals or i think like the first attempt you made
at making a track like a proper track like a demo like you don't even know what you're doing was it in was it nfl it was in fl right yeah yeah so what was it was it a kick drum was it a vocal sample what did you what was that song oh wow it was probably crap slash awesome right yeah that's with crystal castles especially ah dude we are kindred spirits my friend crystal castles and cod all day every day nick i actually forgot to mention that i forgot i completely forgot about them those three albums i was there three albums i was just like rinsing non-stop when i was starting out and i was trying to make like kind of eight bit like like upbeat stuff and it was just garbage
so i'd say that would be my like those those were my first demos kind of just four to the floor like beautiful trying to make cool little synths and it just didn't work if anybody out there hasn't heard crystal castles go get like i know the first couple albums for sure definitely you felt so cool listening to them as well i feel like they were just still i still feel cool listening to them 100 [Laughter] crystal castles is so much cooler than i am right and i'm okay with that i'm totally okay with that man that's so cool i'm starting to think i am you maybe you're australian me but you're like half my age but we both play call of duty and and uh uh are obsessed with crystal castles and daft punk around the world full-on parallel universe vibes totally dude what do you think of joy division you ever listen to them uh here we go they're like
they were definitely a band that i never like fully like checked out like i still would say i haven't checked them out um but i swear i saved one of their songs on spotify the other day and i thought it was sick yeah it's pretty it's pretty good stuff they're like the joy division of the 80s i don't know if that's true at all but there's probably some parallels there okay we're on page two so this is a guest question a friend of mine uh when she found out i was starting a podcast said i want you to ask your guests this question and it's a two-part question what has been your biggest career high and your biggest career challenge so far [Music] i feel like i have two answers for the high b um i think i think it's just a wholesome moment it was after the carmack show this is when i was pretty small
like a year into vowl. and like this group of like um i think i think that would japanese kids like this group of japanese kids came up and just like wanted photos and stuff and i was just like what the i was like all my school friends were there too and they're like what um but i think i just i just feel super grateful for like overall the position that i'm in like being able to basically live comfortably and um make music every day and just or do whatever like i think that's what i'm most proud of and like happy with this it's just the freedom like having freedom through creativity i think um and the hardest i would say would be um just but like it's great i kind of like with my other pro i kind of went head over heels for it
and like things were going really well and like i had a team together and like um like a lot of kind of record label attention like things that i was very idealistic at that point and i was kind of lost in the source of it all and i just burnt out and got really depressed and like basically quit the project um because it was just there was no life no fun in it um but obviously that was like one of the biggest learning experiences um and yeah would not change a thing about it like just basically allowed me to know what i want and how i want to go about things moving forward but yeah that was definitely a heart a really hard time um for a long time like just i was a bit of a pushover like with my managers and stuff and was just yeah not happy
do you think that val now has sort of solved some of those issues and you've mentioned a couple times that having fun is really important and i totally agree with that like sometimes we we get a furrowed brow and we forget that all this thing that's going to stress out is music at the end of the day like relax right fully and i guess when you feel like your life is like especially when you've got other people breathing down your neck or getting angry at you almost or you feel they're like pressure yeah all over music again like you're saying it just makes it even crazier um and i'm getting a reminder i'm getting angry at you because this music should sound like this it's like what are we talking about here right yeah yeah so that was like and that's exactly like that's one big chunk of the whole narrative there with the other project is exactly that is like pandering and
basically doing it for all the wrong reasons um and trying to just yeah you know capitalize off that when it's just like not the way at all yeah i i i'm i'm starting to i'm only like a few episodes into doing this but i can already see that there's so many parallels with everybody's career like everybody that's a musician and a music producer kind of has the same sort of struggles and gates they have to go through and i think like that's a that's a really common one and i can totally relate with that too it's um it's a real balancing act when you work with other people when you you know when you work with other people in a like a business sense especially um because the collaboration itself is amazing and it's this mastermind of all these group minds that are far better creatively than than
you are by yourself and you can't control everything you're not the only visual person you're not the only person that can control the narrative and there's an advantage to being able to be that one person that you don't have to talk to anybody and run things by because you're efficient your fleet on your feet but you don't have that human collaboration thing so it's kind of a balance there's good and bad between both of those worlds right fully like i found with people like you obviously learn so much about yourself like what you don't uh like just energy you don't like or like things that you really need to work on like yourself like for example i was very like possessive um for example of earnings and like i really like wanted people to like
like i really wanted it to seem like people earned their cut if that makes sense or like if it was if it was kind of just like i really wanted things to be fair and like just um and when i felt like i was doing all the heavy load like lifting or something and they're just walking away with like 20 at the end of it it's just like so sour and i wouldn't uh communicate it i would never communicate it of course not so i was just like i was definitely like a boiler like i was like a volcano um and yeah just like it's definitely i just kind of settled i think really quick as well with just certain people like it's like the first opportunities i got with like managers and stuff in a way um i like they're beautiful people and stuff but i think i was just not ready for it all in a lot of ways
interesting uh yeah enough of that bit depressing it's cool no it's it's cool to look back at that stuff and see what you've learned from it right because every we learn from everything and it all leads to where we are now so um that's really cool it's great to be uh to be reflecting on that stuff i think to know what you liked about it and know what you didn't like about it and i think you're right it shows you about yourself and the things that the things that the things that bother you about other people are what are ultimately what bother you about yourself it has nothing to do with them and everything to do with you right everyone is a mirror like it's it's crazy everyone's that's a good one i gotta i got a couple of uh vowel quotes already here i got everyone's a mirror and i got uh what was the other one i got uh emotional radar maybe that's a common phrase but i thought that was pretty good right which one was that mirror
emotional radar i don't think i've ever heard that before i'm gonna make a track called emotional radar and then and then you can sue me well that'll be a test of my possessiveness why don't why don't we do this why don't we settle it over a game of call of duty oh let's do it right done done everybody i i don't think this is the first time you and i have played call of duty i bet we played back in the early 2000s at this point i love it we're getting we're getting deep here on levels fm um okay so next thing are we ready for are we ready for the fast track uh not yet not yet i got a couple more questions what are you probably best known for at this point like are you are you known for some specific song or some collab or something you did
i don't think so no um probably known for the skull maybe i think people would maybe see the skull and recognize it maybe you have lots of followers people are people are listening to you uh i don't know though like i think i would say if if if someone's followed me for a while they'd probably know that like i'm pretty like erratic like i make every like a bit of everything recently it's been a bit more streamlined like as far as like pretty consistently like wave wavy type stuff um but yeah like i remember i would be jumping from genre to genre for years um and yeah i don't but yeah i guess that doesn't really make me people wouldn't know me for that so to speak it's not
like a consistent sound totally fine what are you emo what are you most proud of is there a track that that you're like i really nailed it on that track i love me and brock's track um i feel like that was just like super like the process of that was beautiful and how it just happened was perfect uh how did it happen well it was just like super again universal i feel like i just made this like little beat like the kind of outline for the like main synth lead and like the drop and everything it was like a pretty like soft version of what it is now um and i just opened soundcloud and i heard brock's track level one
and i was just like what the this is crazy um i think he yeah he like i'd never heard of him at that point i just like sent him a message on soundcloud and it's just like dude you're amazing like can i send you something i sent him that track and he got back like really quick and just nailed it and then we became friends and then i flew over to canada and hung out with him and then we finished it oh well there and then he mastered it and then he came over for a road trip in australia and like just basically like i love how the track kind of started like a really nice friendship and yeah it's just like it was amazing we put it out it like it did pretty well but then it was pretty quiet for a while and then it just started shooting up and it's yeah it's like like my top track at the moment and his and yeah it's really cool to see like that kind of authenticity being like
reflected in the exposure i guess shout out brock wilson um you were saying wavy earlier is that a genre yeah like wave music have you heard of that i've heard of synth wave i don't know i'm 50. yeah so like wave is basically um i would say that's what like vowel mainly is um it's basically just throw a fat distorted reese bass on something and it's way music basically we've got trap rhythms you know is it post future bass kind of is it in the future bass realm or no i wouldn't go that far it's more like it's it's not like it's not as sound designing i don't think like obviously future bass is super like syd design vibes um but i'd say yeah wave music's a lot more like sample based kind of like
um big reverb like ambient you'd always call it ambient music okay i'd say like it's a lot closer too cool um [Music] i i wanted to ask you about uh so when i when i talk to people about who their favorite artist is in the last five years or six years when i asked somebody that the two names that come up the most most often are tame impala and flume both those artists are from australia australia is a super small country like population wise what's going on musically in australia like do you know that australia is like this mecca for awesome music and how did that happen it's really weird to to like be reminded of that because
like i feel like personally like there's people i know who do music here um but like i feel like in my world like or ever like all my music friends etc are mainly in america and europe like there's it feels very like people are in their own little bubbles here and it's really low-key um like i'm speaking for myself there as well like i don't i don't network at all really like in australia and like i don't think anyone else really does like it feels really kind of low-key i think that might be the key though i think that the key is what i mean is it's this creative hub not that so much it's like it's not like it's la or something and everybody's like helping each other out it just it seems to be this place that has the recipe for creativity well yeah um i think nature plays it
like the country i think uh you're you're in the matrix let's just let's just pause for a second we're in the matrix in australia you just said my favorite word perth i can't wait to hear more about that um let's do a mic test are you back from the matrix yeah can you hear me yep okay let's go answer that question again yeah like kind of just like neighboring on desert and like open ocean and i feel like it's just like super like untouched and obviously like most of the most of the country i feel like is pretty like that top cities and stuff but for the most part i think like it really fosters uh a degree of like reclusiveness and
like connection to the earth um right so that's it but uh canada i would think is very similar like i just like nature is everything you know um yeah you're in the matrix again we had a we had a good 30 second run there easy i don't know if like app is like drilling my phone but i'm like still losing percentage charging is crazy that's funny um when you you said you tried chrome it didn't work it was yeah yeah it wasn't it told me to get
the like app if it wasn't working well okay so yeah we'll see okay you're kind of back i may have to switch systems or something if it's up too much well we'll we'll we'll see this to the end and we'll take a look at it later and see what it looks like but uh i i'm totally okay with it if it's all choppy just makes it interesting i mean come on man the technology you're on the other side of the planet this is amazing that we can even talk to each other it's so controversial um so i'm okay with a little bit of a matrixy episode from australia i mean i've never met you so oh yeah i have met you once so i don't know if you really exist maybe you are just in the matrix but i have my years we met briefly but i we didn't really it wasn't uh i didn't know that i meant memorable a memorable moment or anything i was probably pretty nervous were you wearing that why were you nervous because you were in a recording studio because you were in canada why
yeah yeah i think at that point too i've always like had a bit of like an inferiority in a lot of ways with stuff like that like i never feel like i really know what i'm doing so i instantly kind of put myself below people just stupid imposter syndrome right like you feel like we're gonna go wait a minute nick doesn't know every control on this eq he's an imposter and then all your music will be removed from the internet and you'll have to walk away in shame right the same feeling i have when people when people know that when people understand that i was in a band for four years and i don't know which note is g or which note is a but but you were playing bass you liar yeah i think everybody feels that way yeah it's imposter shout out imposter syndrome you're keeping us on our toes oh now i've got a big microphone logo it
keeps changing what it like it shows me a a sort of a stock picture of an outline of a man and now it's showing a glowing microphone and then sometimes i see your image so who knows what we're recording here but should be a fun episode um i look amazing so i i guess that helps i i guess i'm the eye candy in this episode that's going to really hold everything together um okay let's get back on track here people come on enough enough jerking around here um so if if nick's back from the matrix let's see if we can uh get him back here um what piece of advice changed your life either this is a long dramatic pause or
you're back in the matrix a long dramatic pause oh perfect okay oh i don't know it's okay good quote good um something that changed your approach uh oh i don't want to stress you out i'm lost i'm so bad at thinking about yourself what i'm thinking about this i'm literally like a god's murder go for it just say it just don't censor
yourself okay say it again you're a little bit matrixy say it one more time i said forgetfulness is god's mercy love it i've never heard that because i'm just so break that down for us forgetfulness is god's mercy yeah i feel like that just makes complete sense to me like it's just it's like it's protection if you're not meant to remember something maybe you know it's a good thing it's good that's good i like that i uh i'm a bit of a like uh i'm a note taker i'm a sticky note haver maybe maybe i'm addicted to sticky notes okay i have a stick i have a sticky note on my fridge that says buy more sticky notes but but i've come to realize that
um if an id and most of it's for ideas like i just have lots of ideas so i just write them down um and mo but but i've realized that most great ideas don't require being written down if it's that great it will probably pop up again and you probably don't even really need to write it down but i think the sticky note approach is great because i think some things definitely just fly through your field and then never come back yeah so i approach it in the same way i do write it down i do read the sticky note down but if that idea doesn't keep hitting me all the time and resonate with me then i let it go yeah but if it resonates with me then i then it becomes a mantra and it starts to just work its way into my daily life i think which is good um but enough about me we're interviewing you here pal um [Music] what is your favorite part of making
music starting or finishing uh i would say finishing for sure i like it it would probably harden but um actually what am i saying why you prefer starting everybody does i was surprised i love the sentence home straight with a song i mean let's go and then you finish it's the best feeling ever um but yeah starting's just loose i feel like i can start like a million things but yeah i guess finishing stuff's hard it's true i think uh picasso has a quote on that or something like any idiot can start something but it takes a true genius to finish it something like that i love that um yeah i'm sure i'm i'm sure i'm butchering that quote but
um um let's move on to your fast track assignment so fast track assignment tell us something that you do well and give us a little uh a little assignment that we can try at home a little a little method a little little three-step process or something for us however you want to do it so the technique or the thing that like kind of spill the beans on actually like a few thinking about it which i think but it's i don't know if you've heard my song headlock or cold um they have these kind of big a big kind of shimmery gated type synth it's like super kind of sharp and like yeah i i heard that i i noticed
that in a couple of your tracks yeah i kind of thought i'd tell people go for it and it's it's definitely just like going to make engineers and stuff want to throw up but um basically it works best i find on like a vocal sample even if i was drunk or anything yeah we're matrixing sorry dude sorry i i i thought we could make it through but it keeps cutting out so let's just give it a couple seconds and then we'll we'll just start right from the beginning of it again sorry man i'm really i'm really into this i i totally noticed that on your tracks i was gonna actually uh maybe talk about that if i had a chance hey do you are you into burial that artist burial
yeah he's sick yeah yeah that's one of my favorites of all time um just listening to their wives oh yeah okay okay because i hearing your vocal samples it reminded me of of burial and have you have you heard of the legacy the story of burial i've heard there's a lot of like epic law about him but i don't know i think there's an article you can find on it's really interesting so he was this artist who sort of came out of nowhere got on everybody's top 10 list and just created this amazing it's basically like you know dubstep before it went to america and became brostep you know the noisy two-step thing that was going on in the uk at the time but he did it with some weird software program like sound forge or something maybe some type of
two-track thing and he did all his edits manually what was it did you say it no no like that's right he did all his edits manually and so it sort of has that j dilla kind of swing to it like old hip hop where it was like not perfectly looped times in in each of his edit points and then and then people started speculating that he was an alias of another famous artist so people thought he was this person or this person the rumors start spreading around it turns out he was just like a 17 year old kid in his mom's basement or something i think and he was somebody nobody had ever heard of before but um he just created these amazing albums and uh it's great it's great stuff it just has such a great vibe to it you're in the here in the matrix dude every time i say it i say it almost like it's your fault uh you're in the matrix
dude like i'm so disappointed at you be it like my um yeah i can't even hear you yeah even your explanation of why you're in the matrix is cutting out which is kind of meta that is meta i'm in the matrix because of those freezes oh god this sucks that's all right maybe this will be people's i can yeah but i'm skeptical okay i'm just going to say quickly while i've got connection my phone yeah while it's plugged it's so crazy let's do fast track fast track okay um so the technique of the shimmery
vowel synth is get a vocal sample or any sound and uh whack a uh saturate i know whack an eq on it and then a gate and make sure sorry i'm just rushing this i'm it let me start again yeah yeah calm down okay okay okay so eq uh a reverb make sure the reverb isn't too high up actually no yes yes and then throw a gate on it throw a gate on it so it's like really pulsating sounds bad um and then a distortion and then another reverb cool people should loop that and then
um another eq at the bottom and basically it sounds really bad but the second eq that's below the distortion and gate you can automate that so that should be low and you kind of automate that and it can make it like go from a really tight gate kind of shimmery synth into this like big like kind of space and then suck it back in and it's like really it's like a distorted uh synth basically because the reverb going into the distortion and gate smothers the sound so it goes from like what would be like a song into just a single sound that's kind of like you know what i mean um so yeah like in my song cold it's literally just the chorus of the song ran through that kind of chain that sounds like a thick like super saw type synth okay let me just write this down i'm just gonna try and remember to put that in the youtube i'll try and link to cold on
the youtube uh thing so let's see 146. um cool so can you tell us what the f what the purpose of the first eq is what are we doing with that first eq in the chain so that would be and also i'll probably send you a message after this podcast just so you can actually have the the order of things so it's not so butchered um it's yeah so a pretty basic eq of just like high passing a bunch of the low end crap that to give room for your like bass and drums and stuff um and then just like softening just a little bit of the highs and stuff so you can really get the crazy distortion and reverb really like high pitched going into the gate um and then yeah so after the gate you have that extra reverb which is fully turned down
but then you automate it and you can make it swell in and out to make big kind of like big like atmospheric synth sounds and tighten it in you don't have to do that but and then the final eq is just to clean it up so you take a fair bit of the high out because obviously you're distorting and you're distorting reverb which sounds pretty mental that's great so when you when you say the second reverb is totally turned down you mean the wet dry mix is on dry and then you're turning it wet to do these big like almost delay throw almost style things fully so it's like the the reverb on that one is yeah like pretty ramped up like it's super like the like mix the depth the decay time like i'll have my decay time on like 11 or something stupid and then yeah it's the full wet dry that you're automating yeah so it's just like coming in and out
and then it is the you set the distortion or saturation between the first and second reverb is that correct or is it after the second reverb yeah so the order i'll just say the order again because i don't it the order is eq um yeah eq the first reverb which you can kind of customize that's like completely up to you like the more reverb you do the more of a washed out synth it'll be okay and the less it'll be more clear so it's eq reverb and then you have your distortion um so you're distorting the reverb and all that and then that goes into the gate which makes it way tighter so it goes from like this big like mess into like right you can control you can control the chaos so what type of distortion is this like a really distorted really saturated overdrive what is it yeah i use
it's like a razor like a razor distortion um like super sharp um so yeah like a blood overdrive or something or overdrive would really work um probably fab filter satin would work too your stock distortion would probably work like um okay and then yeah after the gate it's just you have that wet the wet dry reverb which is huge which you can automate um and then a final eq just to clean it up however you want that's cool but that's like i've used that technique a bunch of times and the first time i used it was in headlock and that was just like a result that i've never heard before and i was like this is crazy i thought it was like such a fluke um and yeah i loved it i i think i know the sound you're talking about in your tracks and if it's the one i'm thinking of it reminded me of the blade runner soundtrack are you a fan of blade runner at all i haven't actually seen it but i feel
like i've heard the soundtrack quite a bit and sounds epic yeah it reminded me of that it's got that space texture that futuristic space texture that's um which is cool um awesome dude that's great i love that and i really like it going back through the first time it was a little confusing and then after you went back and walked us through it i think it makes it makes sense to me what what's going on um and people can try that at home and um you know like you say you don't have to do it exactly the same way you do like part of the fun is setting stuff up the wrong way and running into mistakes anyway right for sure and like i definitely want to add on to that is like you can do it with like anything so like as a chord progression or something you've made or you can just sample like your favorite song or any song and if you can just get it in time with gate like it'll sound crazy oh yeah so like i i use it for like
like on any sample and it will sound really crazy it's mainly for like kind of big drops and stuff or like a big climax point but you could definitely use it in like more subtle ways i've used it for ad-libs in like certain songs and stuff and it sounds really cool do you have a a method to maybe we talked about this before but i don't think we did do you have uh do you think of song structure when you're writing a song or is it all just you don't you're just throwing paint in the wall do you think in terms of structural blocks yeah uh it's it's only intuitive when it doesn't work i would say like my song structure is like usually i have a pretty good idea of like how i'm gonna block things out but then when it doesn't work that's when it's no man's land and it just weasels its way through right it's cool
um [Music] what are you currently obsessed with [Music] i would say mixing is just really fun at the moment like i love just mixing just trying weird like combos of things um combos of effects and stuff and just yeah i think it's hard to say i just love like if like when i actually think about it i love everything to do with producing like the feeling of layering sounds that are complementary is just like it sounds so simple but so satisfying to me so much fun what when you what are you trying to do when you're mixing stuff what are we trying to achieve when we're mixing well it can i feel like it's it's really different every time but
um i feel like i don't know about you but when i'm working on something i usually have usually a pretty clear idea of how i want the thing to sound whether it's like a super underwater like muffled vibe or like a sound or like something that's tickling your ears i don't know like definitely like um texture i think is huge cool um what do you still want to learn um i'm not uh i'm not very good at mastering i want to get better at mastering all the health stuff is just loud as mixes like i don't master val stuff um
and like all of our stuff's like plus 30 db just about um but uh yeah i definitely want to learn how to mix and master like a really clear clean track that just sounds like i really want to like strip things back a bit and be a little less primitive and just try my hand at that you know technical precision i get it i i i'm a big fan of primitive though i think there's some i think there's some there's something to that um alex on weed the last guy i interviewed said that he thinks there's a sound to fl studio and he says it just makes things slap louder than other daws he's worked on do you agree with that
i know the ins and outs of i feel like i've heard that since like i started producing is like kicks and bass just like thump in fl like easier or something they just like kind of have a rounded really nice compressed feeling or something i don't know i wonder what that is but my guess is it's something to do with gain structure but i don't know what it would be i haven't spent i haven't spent really any time with fl studio but i've i've heard from lots of people that they love it and and and then like we talked about before you get the the fl studio apologists like i'm i'm really story i only use fl studio it's like dude it's fine your tracks are awesome um what makes a great song uh feeling that's it i feel like it could be the most deconstructed or like worst musically executed
song ever but if it makes you just like emotional or something that's everything yeah yeah as simple as that it's just like connection through music i guess it's just like i've i'm trying to think like i think of uh um some of those like uh certain country songs i can't think of them but ah they're just so like out of time and like the voice is so like out of key or monotone almost but like the lyrics or whatever just make you want to cry yes i love that yeah have you ever heard the johnny cash stuff that rick rubin produced no i'm reading about it currently though i'm reading rick rubin in the studio um and he's i think later in the book he's talking about funny cash stuff so yeah check that out it's great you've
probably heard the cover of hurt by nine inch nails that johnny cash that's right it's probably the most fa yeah i think you've heard it even if you can't remember it yeah but he did he got him to cover all these like sound garden songs and nine inch nail songs and it's really cool stuff but it's just like it's just johnny cash and a microphone like there's no trickery it's so great that's so exciting um let's talk about some non-musical influences like um architecture movies what else what else we talked a bit about nature what else influences your music that's not music um i feel like um i don't know like i never like really could say that anything besides like just sitting down and like doing it is like where like it feels
like i can well that's like where i feel like it just happens but like i guess like the collective like influence of life like obviously definitely affects how you go about things but i love like for example like animals um like my my dog back home would definitely like um it sounds so simple but you just like reset my perception of life you know like sing about the dumbest then you look at your dog just like chasing its own tail or like so stoked about like a stick that it's chewing up and you're just like that's what it's all about you know but i think like spirituality and of learning about yourself and like different methods to like approach life and
um and mutually overlooked as like young a young person i feel like i feel like young people kind of almost take pride and you know i was like this probably a couple years ago i was like yeah i'm an atheist i just don't like believing like god or the universe or anything else um but yeah i think like being connected or just like realizing that life is actually crazy um like the infinite is everywhere like i feel like it's really important to take that to music you know i agree that's great young people have to do that they that's part of the journey you have to go away from the tribe and go through your you know your 19 and 20 and your you rebel against your parents all that's very natural and and when i was doing that i thought
i was like i think i've discovered something that nobody's ever thought of before i'm reading nietzsche and i'm listening to joy division i'm still listening to joy division and now i'm in the crystal castles now um but you think you're like such a special you know piece of the universe that's never existed before and then and maybe you are that's great um but then i think inevitably um we we just change we're just we're always changing we're always like i i often think about how similar i am to when i was 20 and how different i am like i'm both similar and different at the same time like i that guy definitely thought he knew everything and that guy knew nothing right it's just like you're shaking off i feel like particularly like for me still i feel like you just at that age you're just shaking off your conditioning from your parents and like um
everything you've experienced in life and all your belief systems and like i literally like the last year or so i've just been realizing how much i just act like um and just you just you've learned through observation your whole life and you just you don't know you know to get frustrated and inanimate and like stupid and i end up doing the exact same thing and i'm like hold on i don't actually give a f like about this why am i getting angry at it oh like there's a lot of retracing footsteps in life um you know to find the reasons for this like or why act certain ways why you think certain things like there's a lot of unpacking and like oh i don't actually think that's right like and my parents are just big children you know like at the end of the
day yeah that's something we don't realize yeah till you get older we think that parents or or whatever have have everything figured out these wise souls that have everything figured out it's like yeah they're just struggling like everybody else's um or not um what advice do you have for up and coming music producers what would you tell somebody that could help uh you know inspire them to get into music production um you've just got to like so simple but i feel like you've just you've got to want to do it of creating things you've got to have like unless it's just a hobby and like you just want to have fun and like do it here and there like that's totally valid and fine like i guess if you want to like make something from it like
just go for it and like don't like just like put out good any person like connect with people like be a really positive um you know help people out um and it just like all it just i i feel like people definitely just focus like growth aspect of it all the time and it's just like most of it just comes down to just like making real connections and um learning about the creative world i feel like it's just like being in it that's all that there is like and it's just time in it like i'm sure you've had a ton of experience and it's just like time spent in the realm or you know in the world of it all that things manifest and happen like yeah it doesn't have to be it's not like
open this and do this like it's not like a there's no two-step process for like art a big part of it is showing up right that's it that's like all for sure just participating in it um some some people have a have a hard time answering this question but and so don't feel too stressed out but um is there any book or audiobook that you've read lately or listened to lately that's inspired you that maybe we should take a listen to take a look at um yeah uh a couple like there's a couple of things i'm just reading at the moment um and have read that i think are just like amazing this would be a great thing to read as like someone who's wanting to get into a creative endeavor would be the war of art um
by steven pressfield i think it's just like super quick to the point kick up the ass like you can do anything type energy kind of self-help vibe but focused on creative um but then yeah like uh i found this guy i wanna i really wanna plug him uh this really sweet old man i found him on youtube he's called john butler and he's just the s he's so wise so beautiful like so kind and gentle and he's got a few books i'm just reading one of his books at the moment called wonders of spiritual unfoldment and he's just like he's had an amazing life and he's just um on to presence um and beauty and that um
just add his stuff and just look him up on if you're watching this and want to be refreshed in your being john bubba spiritual unfoldment i think that's his channel it's just amazing i'll try to remember to link that uh if i don't maybe somebody uh in the youtube comments can uh can link it i'm sure remember um shout out john butler and shout out people in the youtube comments um so let's go let's wrap things up here uh we're gonna we're gonna give our listeners your call to action so if we if we wanna listen to some of your stuff or find out more about you where's the best place to go is it youtube is it soundcloud is it instagram is it your website where should we go to find out more about vowel
uh so it's it's pretty simple really it's just instagram like is where i'll where i'm most active and constantly like updating things um and yeah my spotify is just where all my music's going mainly and just obviously the other major platforms um and also my other project mbu is a duo where i'm producing and singing with my best bud bailey over here that's like a really exciting project which i've been working on for a while now and we're rolling stuff out so there's that as well but yeah it's mainly all on instagram um shout out bailey um how do you spell the side project or sorry if it's not a side project your sec your other project it is e-m-a-u-a say it again you were a little matrixy there oh it is
all caps okay cool as opposed to vowel which is all lowercase with a full stop is there a full stop at the end of mbu not no false contrast it's the full contrast it's a very very contrasting i'm a big fan of contrast in mixes by the way and song structure um i just realized that the name vowel has one less vowels than it probably could have exactly i can't tell you how many times i've heard that kind of matter it is um thank thank you so much i have no idea what this is going to sound like at the end of it because we spent a fair portion of our time in the matrix so i'll i'll check out the edit and who knows what it's going to sound like but i'm sure i'm sure we can get a great episode out
of this is there is there anything you want to say uh to the listeners um go inward fam i love it unlock the secrets of the mind oh yeah all right thank you so much nick it was great meeting you you're a great dude i could tell even before i met you that you were a great dude just by the way you were communicating with me on instagram you're just a an awesome person oh he's gone he's gone everybody i think he hung up because he can't handle uh compliments anyway it's just me now but anyway nick i think you're a good dude and uh maybe i should maybe i should uh maybe i should uh i was gonna say talk about it but i'm trying not to swear on my show but everybody does anyway i'll just cut this part out i guess um thank you so much
nick and uh everybody that's vowl. [Music]
